[step-manufacturing] Minutes of August 13th conference call

Mon Aug 18 09:17:38 EDT 2014

Hello,

I regularly follow the development on the STEP-NC standard. Unfortunately my schedule does not allow me to participate to  your discussions.

However, I am always amazed in your discussions to read your positions and the reality of my situation. You mentioned the case of the exchange from the CAM to the NC controller through the APT or the BCL formats and via a third-party solutions to convert these formats. If it's true for users of solutions like CATIA, NX, Creo or even MasterCAM, the situation changes and this conversion step is for us no more a reality. We use the 5 following CAM solutions :
* WorkNc (Vero Software- Sweden after the recent acquisition by the Hexagon metrology group)
* PowerMILL and PowerInspect OM (Delcam - UK)
* Tebis (Tebis - Germany )
* Esprit (DP Technology - USA)
* TopSolid (Missler Software - France)
(According to the last CIMdata  NC Software Market Analysis Report, these 5 companies represent 35% of the CAM market in terms of of installed software licenses against 28% to Dassault+Siemens +PTC and CNC Software)

For these five CAM package, conversion goes through an internal solution and the software evolutions by taking into account the "machine context" (Consideration of the machine kinematics / tool library /  machining related processes ) have made the use of an external postprocessor virtually more and more difficult. This difficulty comes from the stronger link between the software parameters/strategies  and the higher level of the generated code. Under these conditions use an internal postprocessor integrate and sell the postprocessor is also a part of his income for an editor. Use of a single NC-STEP format would also be a loss of activity (as the code generation must run within his solution and his technicians).
His interest is to have a machine code generation that is still compatible with the newest developed strategies. I take as an example the "polar milling" strategy of Delcam. Using it require an update of its Postprocessor so even if you don't have to pay for this function using the new feature generates revenue for the editor. (Web page on the Polar milling :http://www.delcam.com/news/press_article.asp?releaseId=1335 )

Finally, I draw your attention to the case of the Tebis solution. Tebis has a very unique approach to data management : in a single CAD file (*.cad) you can find all the informations of your machining process. You can have not only the geometry information, but also the machines definitions, the tools libraries, all automatic machining process called NCSet but also your POSTPROCESSORS, everything... In these conditions all the knowledge of your business can be stored in ONE file.
To organize and secure  the exchanges between users of their solution (eg within the same group or with a subcontractor) Tebis introduced since version 3.5 the concept of "Know how protection". Users or administrators can now define the levels of protection on the use of these data by a third user. This fundamental notion in collaboration between supplier and subcontractor is absent from the standard Step NC yet it is one of the future challenges of data exchange and collaboration.

On this point the evolution of Step-Nc should provide an answer on this point, before trying to integrate everything into a single format. This concept is much more important in my view that the risks associated with loss of income for editors for accepting a single exchange format.
I recommend to read the Tebis brochure : Increase the productivity  within your CAD/CAM process according to plan(Page 10 to 11)  :   http://www.tebis.com/cms/fileadmin/broschueren/en_ca_Tebis_V35_R1_A4_2010.pdf

The situation in Europe may be different but I think from my point of view that your analyzes are too limited to a situation that is already outdated.

Just my point of view.

Best regards, (I'm sorry for my English which is not as good as I would like)

Laurent LALLIARD
Procédés Performants et Innovants
+33 (0)4 77 79 41 38
[cid:image003.jpg at 01CFBAF7.8BCDEA10]<http://www.cetim.fr/>

De : step-manufacturing [mailto:step-manufacturing-bounces at steptools.com] De la part de Martin Hardwick
Envoyé : vendredi 15 août 2014 21:02
À : step-manufacturing at steptools.com
Objet : [step-manufacturing] Minutes of August 13th conference call

Attendees
--------------
Martin Hardwick, STEP Tools, USA
David Loffredo, STEP Tools, USA
Julie Huang, Sandvik Sweden
Alain Brail, Airbus (retired), France
Mike Restall, Sandvik, USA
David Odendahl, Boeing, USA
Sid Venkatesh, Boeing, USA
Leon Xu, Boeing, USA
Jim Kosmala, Okuma, USA
Thanh Huynh, Okuma, USA
Bob Baldizzi, Okuma, USA
Paul Kingsley, Okuma, USA
Rod Tojdowski, Okuma, USA
Thanh Huynh, Okuma, USA
Brian Sides, Okuma, USA
Vincent Marchetti, Ameritech, USA
Wayne Myers, Gosinger, USA
Zhigang Wang, Makino, USA

The press release for the IMTS demonstration was sent on July 31st.

We agreed that it is becoming inappropriate to discuss details of a demonstration to be given in the Okuma booth at IMTS in a public domain (ISO) conference call.

We discussed the advantages of replacing the multiple different formats used by the CAM industry for process data with STEP-NC.

Each CAM vendor has its own data format for communicating the process data designed in its system to the developers of post processors. The most well known is the NCI format of Mastercam. The formats are designed to be simple to convert into G-codes. The conversion is usually done by third parties who know the coordinate configurations of the machine, and the preferences of the customer. For the customer the cost of developing and maintaining the postprocessor is an undesired cost and the cause of errors because of misunderstanding between the CAM operators, the post-processor developers, the CNC operators and the machine tool builders.

Several attempts have been made to replace the CAM outputs with with a single standardized file. APT-CL was an early example but it did not have enough functionality and too many flavors were added to create that functionality. BCL was another example. Its features were more closely controlled but it failed because the cost of developing and maintaining a post processor from BCL was greater than the cost of developing and maintaining one from the CAM export formats.

The CAM export formats have the advantage of working closely with the CAM systems so the post-processor writer can visualize what is going on by looking at the process definition in the CAM system. APT-CL and BCL do not have a model of the stock or workpiece so process visualization is very difficult. STEP-NC is different because it includes geometry models for all of the key elements including the stock and workpiece but also the cutting tools, fixtures and machine. Therefore, the process can be understood in context and systems such as STEP-NC Machine can show simulations to further enforce data correctness.

Consequently we discussed whether the industry can replace the non-standard CAM file formats with ISO 10303-238 STEP-NC. For the CAM industry there is the cost of developing the software to export the new data. We estimate this cost to be about $100K including two months of work and the cost of purchasing a STEP toolkit. The cost is low because all the geometry models are already being made in CAD so they only have to be linked into the process model.

In return the CAM vendor can reduce costs by no longer having to manage a post-processor industry. The potential price is the loss of business if the end user can change between CAM vendors more easily. A leading vendor will have the winning functionality and an emerging vendor will like the reduced costs for market entry, but the other vendors will worry about the customers currently locked into their post-processor base.

A recording of the call is on the ftp site.
ftp://www.steptools.com/private/CAM_exchange/Cycle_4/stepmanuf_telecon_20140813.wmv<ftp://www.steptools.com/private/CAM_exchange/Cycle_4/stepmanuf_telecon_20140709.wmv>

The next conference call will be held at the regular times on Wednesday  August 20th

Martin Hardwick
Team Leader ISO STEP-Manufacturing
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