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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ed,<br>
<br>
We may well be compelled to apply for the URN but in defense of
not doing so let me say:<br>
<br>
1. The true purpose of a URN (in my opinion) is to reference
something that should already be known to the reader. In STEP we
already know what the definition of an inch is - it has been the
same in every P21 file for the last 20 years.<br>
2. Why would someone outside of STEP want to access the STEP
definition of inch as encoded in a P21 file (and stored at the
Part 41 URL given earlier in the e-mail trail)? If no one external
to STEP is going to reference why register?<br>
<br>
The key reason for using <urn:step:inch> is that it is a
familiar notation more or less. Most people know that a URN is the
alternative to a URL and that it is to be used when something is
already known . Calling it a stepid as in <stepid:step:inch>
would not have this advantage.<br>
<br>
Thanks for sticking with me on this.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
PS Let me try to prevent messages about being STEP centric by
reminding us all that I am also proposing/suggesting the use of
<urn:ifc:inch> and <urn:iso15926:inch><br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/11/2014 4:51 PM, Barkmeyer, Edward J wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Martin,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Well,
if you take that view, why use ‘urn’ at all? Why not call
it ‘stepid:’? If you are not going to abide by the
standard, why use the standard prefix?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And
if there is no registry for these names, what happens when
some other organization chooses to use urn:step for their
names? Of course, there will never be any company that uses
STEP and the Step.org estate planning people, but the
possibilities for the ‘step’ acronym are hardly restricted
to SC4. That is why we have registries – to insure that
symbols are unique.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
Linked Open Data people may be wrong about the future, but I
can guarantee that the closed world of standards in SC4 is
already a thing of the past. Integrating data across
multiple models and sources is the future of industrial IT.
If it weren’t, your Part 21 project would not be. With a
little effort, we can avoid creating a pit that someone will
fall into 2 years from now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Ed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-numeric ideograph-other"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Martin Hardwick [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com">mailto:hardwick@steptools.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Barkmeyer, Edward J; Thomas.r.thurman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Thomas Liebich; wg11; Palmer, Mark E. Mr.;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:magne.valen.sendstad@gmail.com">magne.valen.sendstad@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [wg11] units of measure, from
Minutes of Part 21 E3 DIS testing telecon on June 5,
2914<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Why does a URN have to be registered?<br>
<br>
If one of our documents says <urn:step:inch><u> in a
STEP model</u> means an inch as defined at
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH"><http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH></a></span>;
is anybody going to complain, and if so to whom?<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
On 6/11/2014 1:26 PM, Barkmeyer, Edward J wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fine.
Then someone has to do the ICANN registration process
for urn:step! And since I assisted Joanna Goodwin and
Holger Apel with that rigamarole producing RFC 5141, I
can tell you they didn’t make it easy. It is NOT like
paying $100 for a domain name.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
undertook that for SC4, so that
urn:iso:std:iso:10303:term:xxx would be automatically
valid, and so that SC4 could define URNs beginning
urn:iso:std:iso:10303:tech and other such identifiers.
If you want urn:step, you should have stepped up in
2004-5 when we did that (but you probably would not have
had support from JTC1 and TC68 and TC154).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
don’t really care whether you use URNs or not. Sir Tim
got his way and denatured http: and made the whole URN
effort largely useless. (It was neither the first nor
last waste of my time in standards land.) What you do
have to realize is that there is a formal procedure for
creating URIs of either kind, and if you elect not to
use what has already been done, you get to put the
resources into repeating the procedure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">STEP
as a whole is a sow’s ear, but it works and using it is
a lot cheaper than trying to roll your own silk purse.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Ed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Martin Hardwick [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com">mailto:hardwick@steptools.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Barkmeyer, Edward J; Thomas.r.thurman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Thomas Liebich; wg11; Palmer, Mark E.
Mr.; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:magne.valen.sendstad@gmail.com">
magne.valen.sendstad@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [wg11] units of measure, from
Minutes of Part 21 E3 DIS testing telecon on June
5, 2914</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/11/2014 12:39 PM, Barkmeyer,
Edward J wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Martin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why
is:
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH"><http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH></a></span>;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">less
“convoluted” than:</span>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
urn:iso:std:iso:31:term:metre</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">???</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">You tell me. I want to use
<urn:step:inch><br>
<br>
As implementors we have found that less typing means
less scope for mistakes. <br>
<br>
If there is going to have to be lots of typing then </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH"><http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH></a></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">; is better than </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">urn:iso:std:iso:31:term:metre
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">because there are
lots of ways to check for badly type URL's and hardly
any to check a badly typed URN.<br>
<br>
Your URN requires me to remember:<br>
1. Type iso twice<br>
2. The standard number is 31<br>
3. The concept being defined is a term<br>
<br>
As an implementor I can do all this. Just look at what
we did for units in Part 21 Edition 1 and 2.
<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
http: form just uses a different ISO CS directive for
formulating IRIs, which is “jealously guarded” by ISO
CS in exactly the same way!</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
both cases, ISOCS specifies what everything up to the
“tech” part must be, and the SC gets to define what
follows.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
point of the ISO URNs of the form above is that MERELY
by having the term defined in an existing ISO
standard, there IS a standard IRI for the term. And
if multiple standards define “metre”, then it is very
important that you know WHICH meaning is intended by
the reference!
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Why
would it be better for ISO 10303 to define what it
means by “inch” than what some industry reference
standard defines “inch” to mean? Do I have to find a
different IRI if I am using an ASTM standard? or an
API standard? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
problem is to get a reference standard that defines
the “conversion based units” (English measure, et al.)
that we want to be able to use, and then to use one of
the ISO-specified forms for creating the corresponding
IRI, whether it begins http: or urn:. Enabling such
things is exactly why ISOCS went to the trouble of
registering the URN and URL forms and publishing the
corresponding directives. And if the reference
standard is not an ISO standard, then we will be bound
by whatever URI syntax that particular SDO set up.
So, if urn:ifc, or
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ifc.org/">http://ifc.org/</a>,
is an ICANN registered prefix, and the IFC defines
urn:ifc:inch, or whatever “convoluted” form IFC
decides on, we could use that and be done.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
point of all this is that the references for
constructing IRIs are already in place. What is
necessary is the *<b>standard</b>* that defines the
terms you want to use, so that the IRI that refers to
that term in that standard can be employed. Stop
worrying about the IRIs and figure out where/what the
reference standard is to be. By way of assisting in
this, I have put in a request to a NIST SI/BIPM
person to identify an appropriate specification for
English measures, but I have not yet received a
response.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Ed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Martin Hardwick [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com">mailto:hardwick@steptools.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Thomas.r.thurman<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Barkmeyer, Edward J; Thomas Liebich;
wg11; Palmer, Mark E. Mr.; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:magne.valen.sendstad@gmail.com">
magne.valen.sendstad@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [wg11] units of measure,
from Minutes of Part 21 E3 DIS testing telecon
on June 5, 2914</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Again my purpose is to investigate how P21 e3 might
help. The most we can venture is to produce some
recommendations and examples.<br>
<br>
My summary of the previous e-mails is that the ISO
namespace <urn:iso> is jealously guarded to
keep the peace between the committees. We are never
going to be able to use it to make something easy
for the implementors.<br>
<br>
However, before giving up on URN's I would like to
get opinion on the following: Can we define our own
namespaces?<br>
<br>
We might do this for each standard, or at the level
of SC4.<br>
<br>
For example, if we decide to use URNs to define
units for STEP then<br>
1. The URN for inch might be <urn:step:inch>;<br>
2. The URN would be mapped by appropriate wording in
the appropriate place to the URL
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH"><http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/-41/units.stp#INCH></a>;<br>
3. The URN would only have to have meaning for a
STEP model.<br>
<br>
We would then do the same for ifc
<urn:ifc:inch> and iso15926
<urn:iso15926:inch> etc.
<br>
<br>
The appropriate wording in #2 could be words in the
standards document, or it could be a rule in the
standards document telling you where to find a
server with the permitted URNs.
<br>
<br>
Martin Hardwick<br>
Team Leader ISO STEP-Manufacturing<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/10/2014 8:15 PM, Thomas.r.thurman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The purpose behind the units
thing in P21 ed3 EXAMPLEs is to help move things
forward,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">as opposed to just having
examples in p41.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The BIPM has made general
quantities and units document publicly available,
but ISO 80000-x <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">is still behind a paywall which
means I have to buy a copy of it to understand
what a term means.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What is the <b><i><u>business</u></i></b>
process for moving forward?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom<br>
Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 10, 2014, at 4:11 PM, Martin Hardwick <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com">hardwick@steptools.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Hi Ed,<br>
<br>
Thanks for these comments and before anyone
gets the wrong idea let me state emphatically
that Part Edition 3 is NOT, NOT, NOT planning
to define any units. We are only looking at
what might become possible if URI's are
allowed in the Part 21 standard.<br>
<br>
One option for the relevant committees is to
keep the status quo and demand that all units
are defined from first principles as is
currently the case in all the STEP Application
Protocols. Thus every time an inch is used it
must be defined as being 25.4 millimeters.
(As an aside I wonder what would happen if a
file defined an inch as 25.3 millimeters.
Would the software notice? Would it follow
through and convert all the units by the given
formula. Would the result be a correct model?
What about the accuracy constraints? Has STEP
been consistent about applying the conversion
across all the cases?)<br>
<br>
The second option is to use URL's. This is the
option that is being most actively
investigated by the P21 e3 group. This option
is currently running into several small issues
with respect to conversion based units. As I
understand it the issues are derived from
problems in the PLIB expression schema, but on
a more personal level I have always thought it
crazy to encode expressions in the PLIB
expression schema.<br>
<br>
This started me thinking about the URN option
in more detail. As I understand it a URN is
used when the systems are expected to "know"
the definition.<br>
<br>
Hence I wonder why we cannot define<br>
<br>
<urn:iso:inch><br>
<br>
In the context of an AP242 file this would
mean the current definition only with the
conversion GUARANTEED to be 25.4. For an OWL
system it would be whatever OWL systems expect
and so on. It is a URN so nothing has to be at
the other end of the definition, but something
could be so STEP could say this URN is defined
by the definitions at the following URL (which
can then be as complex as any standards
organization can imagine).<br>
<br>
I really wonder what the advantage of a
convoluted URN such as <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">urn:iso:std:iso:31:term:metre</span>
might be. Does this mean that different
standards groups are going to define different
metres?<br>
<br>
There is also the practical issue for system
implementors of what to do if someone types
the URN's slightly wrong which increases as
the URN gets longer.
<br>
<br>
As an implementor <urn:iso:inch> seems
just about acceptable because there is very
small possibility that we will want to have
two definitions for inch in STEP files - one
defined by ISO and another defined by Martians
<urn:mars:inch>. A more practical
example might be the definition of pint which
is different between the UK
<urn:iso:uk:pint> and the USA
<urn:iso:usa:pint>. I can see that ISO
might shy away from making this kind of
distinction, but in this case can STEP should
define its own name space
<urn:step:inch> for its own STEP files.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your attention. If we are going to
have to write URN's that are as long and
convoluted as the URL's then we may as well
stick with the URL's, so I am hoping there is
a better solution.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/10/2014 4:42 PM, Barkmeyer, Edward J
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Martin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
agree that fuddling with Part 41
representations of measurement units that
should have reference IRIs is “so 1990s”.
But moving on requires a wider commitment.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">urn:iso:
... is a well-defined identifier form, and
ISO CS is the registry for it. See IETF RFC
5141. (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5141">http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5141</a>)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Some
of these units are defined terms in ISO 31,
ISO 1000 and ISO 80000. As a consequence
they have a well-defined URN per the RFC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For
example, the URN for ‘metre’ is (I think):</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
urn:iso:std:iso:31:term:metre</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
is doubtless the case that one of the ISO
measurement units standards defines cm/s,
but it is unlikely that any defines
‘furlong’ or ‘inches per second’. That is
why Part 41 has the conversion_based_unit
construct.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SC4
has authority from ISOCS to define ISO URNs
by attaching :tech:<whatever> to any
(Part of any) SC4 developed standard
identifier, with the proviso that these
identifiers are, in fact, defined in the
technical specification. It is in fact
possible for Part 21 to specify URNs of the
form:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
urn:iso:std:iso:10303:tech: xxx</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">without
identifying the Part number. I suspect that
WG12 would consider it inappropriate for
Part 21 to contain such specifications,
however.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Further,
there is an issue in WG3 to align ISO
15926-4 with ISO 80000 and perhaps to
incorporate some elements of NASA QUDT,
which is an OWL ontology of every unit NASA
has ever dreamed of using, based on a
fundamental ontology that mirrors ISO 80000
and the International Vocabulary for
Measures (VIM). So, it may be possible that
these desired “common units” have the form:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
urn:iso:std:iso:15926:-4:tech:class:INCHES_PER_SECOND
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">or
something the like. It is definitely the
intent of WG3 that they will have a URI</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://iso.org/std/iso/15926/-4">http://iso.org/std/iso/15926/-4#</a>
INCHES_PER_SECOND</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">or
something the like (and that is only because
W3C decided that http: is the universal
prefix for IRIs, and no longer denotes a
protocol). But WG3 would really prefer that
QUDT was a referenceable standard in its own
right, with its own IRI path.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With
the above as background, it is important for
SC4 to avoid participating in the
construction of another cottage industry.
It would be a “good thing” for SC4 to bring
its interested parties to a common table and
come up with a common solution to this
problem for SC4 specifications, instead of
one-off conventions for the favorite
technology of each Working Group.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Ed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
wg11 [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wg11-bounces@steptools.com">mailto:wg11-bounces@steptools.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Hardwick<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2014
10:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Thomas Liebich; wg11<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [wg11] Minutes of
Part 21 E3 DIS testing telecon on June
5, 2914</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Thomas,<br>
<br>
Thanks for this feedback.<br>
<br>
I am growing in favor of using a simple
URN for all the "famous" (well known
units).<br>
<br>
Hence, we might have in the reference
section of a P21 e3 file:<br>
<br>
#10=<urn:iso:metre>;<br>
#20=<urn:iso:inch>;<br>
#30=<urn:iso:centigrade>;<br>
#40=<urn:iso:Fahrenheit>;<br>
#50=<urn:iso:furlong> ;<br>
#60=<urn:iso:inches-per-second>;<br>
<br>
And so on for all the units that the
standards want to recognize. There would
not need to be any files to define these
units (but there could be). Software
systems would be expected to "know" them
from the URN and that would include
knowing how to convert between them. <br>
<br>
(Without benefit of a conversion based
expression - oh my gosh what will happen
if there is an apocalypse and the only
people left are idiot savant nerds who
only know how to follow mathematical
expressions and cannot remember any units
except the ones stored in the NIST library
which was the only building in Washington
to survive the catastrophe of course) -
Yes I will be made to regret this
statement.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/10/2014 9:29 AM, Thomas Liebich
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear all,<br>
<br>
only as a side remark. During our IFC
(ISO16739) developments we faced the same
issue - a derived unit involving factor
and offset cannot be defined with the
current conversion_based_unit.<br>
<br>
So we added a subtype to IFC4, which
essentially defines the same, as the
proposed extension here for P41.<br>
See <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.buildingsmart-tech.org/ifc/IFC4/final/html/link/ifcconversionbasedunitwithoffset.htm">http://www.buildingsmart-tech.org/ifc/IFC4/final/html/link/ifcconversionbasedunitwithoffset.htm</a><br>
<br>
One important consideration: you need to
determine, whether to apply the offset
before or after applying the factor. We
decided to apply it after.<br>
<br>
hope it gives another insight,<br>
<br>
regards<br>
Thomas<br>
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 08.06.2014 01:46,
schrieb thomas thurman:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Addendum for
Fahrenheit discussion. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Comments on
current approach in part 41 and AP
214:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1-part 41
is specific that any unit that
is related to a unit specified
in part 41 shall be a
‘conversion_based_unit’.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2-conversion_based_unit
only converts the magnitude
but does not provide an
offset.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3-The use
of ISO 13584-20 for such a
simple case is long agreed
overkill; the example in part
41 F 4.4 has EXPRESS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">errors (<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">a-the
expression_conversion_based_unit
shall be a
conversion_based_unit (see (1)
above.) and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">b-the
attribute redeclaration in
e.g.,
named_unit_variable.associated_variable_environment
is invalid.).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4-AP 242
ed1 did not include a
structure to support
Fahrenheit unit exchange.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">5-AP214
used a context_dependent_unit
which is invalid (see (1)
above). As noted above this
was NOT promoted to<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">AP 242.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">6-After
several attempts to discover a
URL,URN for Fahrenheit I gave
up and am proposing that SC4
define its own<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(NIST has a
guide that includes a
definition of Fahrenheit as a
note (I think) but does not
provide a URN or URL.).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(There are
multiple conversion
calculators on the web but I
am not convinced of their
persistence.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In any
event use of a conversion
calculator opens up its own
can of worms.)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">==========proposed
solution:===========<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">add a
subtype of
conversion_based_unit,
conversion_based_unit_with_offset
to provide the offset.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">=========current:============<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">A <b>conversion_based_unit</b> is
a type of </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.named_unit"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">named_unit</span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif""> that
defines a unit on the basis
of a </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">measure_with_unit</span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">.</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="note"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="note_"><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">NOTE </span></a><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif""> The <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit.value_component"><b>value_component</b></a> attribute
of the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit"><b>measure_with_unit</b></a> defines
the conversion factor.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="example"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="example_"><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">EXAMPLE
An inch is a <b>conversion_based_unit</b>.
It is from the Imperial
system, its name is
"inch", and it can be
related to the </span></a><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.si_unit"><b><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">si_unit</span></b></a><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">, millimetre,
through a </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit"><b><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">measure_with_unit</span></b></a><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif""> whose value is
25.4 millimetre. A foot is
also a <b>conversion_based_unit</b>.
It is from the Imperial
system, its name is "foot",
and it can be related to an </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.si_unit"><b><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">si_unit</span></b></a><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">, millimetre,
either directly or through
the unit called "inch".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">EXPRESS
specification:</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p><code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">*)</span></code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif""><br>
<code>ENTITY
conversion_based_unit</code><br>
<code> SUBTYPE OF (</code></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresource_docs%5Cfundamentals_of_product_description_and_support%5Csys%5C18_schema.htm#measure_schema.named_unit"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif"">named_unit</span></a><code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">);</span></code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif""><br>
<code> name : </code></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresource_docs%5Cfundamentals_of_product_description_and_support%5Csys%5C25_schema.htm#support_resource_schema.label"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif"">label</span></a><code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">;</span></code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif""><br>
<code> conversion_factor : </code></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresource_docs%5Cfundamentals_of_product_description_and_support%5Csys%5C18_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif"">measure_with_unit</span></a><code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">;</span></code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif""><br>
<code>WHERE</code><br>
<code> WR1:
SELF\named_unit.dimensions
=
derive_dimensional_exponents(conversion_factor\measure_with_unit.unit_component);</code><br>
<code>END_ENTITY;</code><br>
<code>(*</code></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">Attribute
definitions:</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="expressdescription"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">name: </span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">the </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Csupport_resource_schema%5Csupport_resource_schema.htm#support_resource_schema.label"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">label</span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif""> by
which the <b>conversion_based_unit</b> is
known.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="expressdescription"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="measure_schema.conversion_based_unit.con"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">conversion_factor: </span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">the </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">measure_with_unit</span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif""> that
specifies the physical
quantity from which the <b>conversion_based_unit</b> is
derived.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">Formal
propositions:</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="expressdescription"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">WR1: </span></b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">The
dimensional exponents shall
be equal to those from the </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.conversion_based_unit.conversion_factor"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">conversion_factor</span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">=========proposed
addition to part 41=========<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">A <b>conversion_based_unit_with_offset</b> is
a type of <b>conversion_based_unit</b> that
includes a scale offset.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="note"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">EXAMPLE
A Fahrenheit is a <b>conversion_based_unit_with_offset</b>.
It is from the Imperial
system, its name is
“fahrenheit", and it can be
related to the <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.si_unit"><b>si_unit</b></a>,
degree Celsius, through a <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresources%5Cmeasure_schema%5Cmeasure_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit"><b>measure_with_unit</b></a> whose
value is 1.8 degree Celsius.
The offset is 32 degree
Celsius.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">EXPRESS
specification:</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">*)</span></code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif""><br>
<code>ENTITY
conversion_based_unit_with_offset</code><br>
<code> SUBTYPE OF (</code></span><code><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">conversion_based_unit</span></b></code><code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">);</span></code><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New","serif""><br>
<code> offset : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="file:///%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5CUsers%5Ctom%5CDocuments%5C2013%5CSMRLv5%5CSMRL_v5_rc5%5Cdata%5Cresource_docs%5Cfundamentals_of_product_description_and_support%5Csys%5C18_schema.htm#measure_schema.measure_with_unit">R</a>EAL;</code><br>
<code>WHERE</code><br>
<code> WR1: offset <>
0.0;</code><br>
<code>END_ENTITY;</code><br>
<code>(*</code></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">Attribute
definitions:</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="expressdescription"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="measure_schema.conversion_based_unit.nam"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">offset: </span></b></a><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">the value
of the offset represented in
the units of the
conversion_factor inherited
from
the conversion_based_unit.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="expressdescription"><u><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">Formal
propositions:</span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="expressdescription"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="measure_schema.conversion_based_unit.wr:"><b><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times","serif"">WR1: The
offset shall not be
zero.</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note: If
the offset is zero, then the
supertype <b><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">conversion_based_unit
</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Times","serif"">is
used.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">=========end
proposed addition to part
41=========<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 6,
2014, at 3:29 PM, Martin
Hardwick <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com">hardwick@steptools.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div
style="margin-left:-.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center"><b><span
style="font-size:16.0pt">P21
e3 DIS Testing</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:-.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt">Minutes
of June 5, 2104 Telecon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<h2>Attendees<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Martin
Hardwick
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com"><hardwick@steptools.com></a>
<br>
Robert Lipman <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:robert.lipman@nist.gov"><robert.lipman@nist.gov></a>
<br>
Michael Benda <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mjbenda@rockwellcollins.com"><mjbenda@rockwellcollins.com></a>
<br>
Hedlind Mikael <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mikael.hedlind@scania.com"><mikael.hedlind@scania.com></a>
<br>
Dave Loffredo <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:loffredo@steptools.com"><loffredo@steptools.com></a>
<br>
Ed Paff <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ejp@transcendata.com"><ejp@transcendata.com></a>
<br>
Tom Thurman <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thomas.r.thurman@imonmail.com"><thomas.r.thurman@imonmail.com></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Apologies for Absence<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jochen
Fritz
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jfritz@steptools.com"><jfritz@steptools.com></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nicolas
Figay
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nicolas.figay@eads.net"><nicolas.figay@eads.net></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>PMI Splitting<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="htmlbody">ITI has
split the sp3_boxy file
produced by NIST into a
geometry file and a pmi file.
STEP Tools has viewed the
geometry file and is working
on a viewer for the separated
pmi file. The two files and
the original NIST data can be
found at the following URL:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/PMI/">ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/PMI/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">STEP Tools
is sponsoring the development
of open source programs to
split and merge P21 files
using the Edition 3
specification. The programs
are available at the following
URL:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tinyurl.com/thundercode">http://tinyurl.com/thundercode</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>ZIP Assemblies<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="htmlbody">No visible
progress has been made on this
test case since the last
telecom, but the PMI merge and
split code is being updated to
handle this case as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/ZIP_Assembly/">ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/ZIP_Assembly/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">In the last
telecom:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>We decided the
sub-tree directory names
should include the NUAO
identifier(s) for their
corresponding node in the
assembly tree.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>We learned that the
LZMA algorithm has been
shown to make STEP files
three times more compressed
than the more commonly used
deflate algorithm, but at
the cost of an increase in
the compression time.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>We learned that each
compressed file is required
to document the algorithm
used for its compression in
its header and that
different components in the
same ZIP can used different
compression algorithms.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>We recommended that
the choice of the best
compression algorithm should
be left to the end user and
that the standard should be
silent on the matter.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><b> </b><o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Unit Definitions<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="htmlbody">The unit
definitions have been merged
into a single file called
units.stp.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/Units/">ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/Units/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">We continued
our discussion on whether unit
references should be encoded
as a URL or a URN. The
following two lines of code
show equivalent URL’s and
URN’s.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/41/si_base_units.stp#METRE"><http://standards.iso.org/iso/10303/tech/reference_data/41/si_base_units.stp#METRE></a>;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><urn:iso:std:iso:10303:-41:tech:unit:metre>;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="margin-left:63.0pt;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-63.0pt">Explanation
of URN: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">urn
Indicates this URI is a URN,
instead of the more common
URL (http)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">iso
URN namespace (other
examples are oid, usbn)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">std
ISO standard <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">iso
originating organization
(other examples are iec,
iso-ies, iso-cie)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">10303
STEP standard
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">-41
part of multipart standard
(hyphens required)
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in">Tech
associated or embedded
resource defined by
committee that created the
standard
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:1.0in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-1.0in"><the
rest>
unspecified -- controlled by
committee.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">In the above
example, the URN has small
advantage over the URL but
perhaps the following URN will
be acceptable because a file
does not have to exist to
define a URN.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><urn:iso:metre>;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">It is also
conceivable that the following
URN might be acceptable even
though there are currently
small technical issues
stopping the deployment of
unit definitions for a
Fahrenheit measure in a STEP
file.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><urn:iso:Fahrenheit>;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">We further
discussed the requirements if
all the unit definitions are
to be defined in STEP files.
The definition of literal
constants such as PI, and
EXPRESS constants such as
negri_pi, have both led to
extensive additions to the
edition 3 format for which
other strong use cases are
currently lacking.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">On the other
hand the problem might be that
we have not been sufficiently
ambitious. It was pointed out
that if constants can be
defined then we are close to
allowing expressions to be
defined. The use of the PLIB
schema for expressions has
never been very satisfactory
because the expressions are
too hard to read when encoded
into the STEP files. However,
if Part 21 has an expression
evaluation capability
(probably in the anchors) then
potential STEP applications
such as parametrics and
construction history might
become more tractable. One
interesting possibility might
be to use Modelica as the
expression language.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Digital Signatures<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="htmlbody">STEP Tools
gave a demonstration of how to
make a digital signature using
a private key and a signing
certificate and how to verify
that a file has not been
edited since it was signed
using a public key.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/Digital_signatures/">ftp://www.steptools.com/private/P21e3_DIS_testing/Digital_signatures/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">We discussed
white space and the issues
that might arise if a file is
read into Notepad/Wordpad and
converted from line-feeds to
carriage returns or vice
versa. These characters are
explicitly excluded from the
Part 21 character set so they
will not be included when
computing and verifying the
hash value.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">We discussed
supporting multiple
signatures. The easiest
procedure is for each
signature to be applied to all
of the characters that precede
that signature. Thus each new
signee is also verifying the
signature of the previous
signees.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody">For this to
be consistent it would be best
if the signatures came after
the END-ISO-10303-21 keyword
as shown in the example on the
ftp site.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>The next conference
call will be held on Friday
June 27 at 4PM Paris, 3PM
London, 10AM New York and
7AM Seattle.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="htmlbody"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<h2>Action Items<o:p></o:p></h2>
<p class="htmlbody"
style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in">1.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>Complete the first ZIP
assembly example.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="htmlbody"
style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in">2.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>Consider the best
approach for unit definitions:
URN’s or URLs’?<o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in">3.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>Consider if Edition 3
should offer any support to
the definition of
parametrics and if so how?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in">4.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>Extend the digital
signatures example to
include the creation of
signing certificates.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.5in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-indent:-.25in">5.<span
style="font-size:7.0pt">
</span>Demonstrate signing
at one site (ITI) and
verification at another site
(STEP Tools).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.25in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:.25in;margin-right:-.5in">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other">As
recorded by Martin Hardwick
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hardwick@steptools.com"><hardwick@steptools.com></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><Minutes_p21e3_DIS_conference_call_05062014.docx>_______________________________________________<br>
wg11 mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wg11@steptools.com">wg11@steptools.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11">http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
class="apple-style-span"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Notice:
This e-mail (including
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Thank you.</span></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>wg11 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wg11@steptools.com">wg11@steptools.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11">http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">--
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>beste Grüße / kind regards<br>
<br>
Dr.-Ing. Thomas Liebich<br>
Geschäftsführer / Director <o:p></o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;text-autospace:ideograph-other"
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<hr align="center" size="2"
width="100%">
</span></div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
summary="signature" style="width:98.0%"
cellpadding="0" border="0" width="98%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:40.0%;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top"
width="40%">
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">AEC3
Deutschland GmbH<br>
AG München, Handelsregister
HRB 164221<br>
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Thomas
Liebich, Kerstin Hausknecht</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:40.0%;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top"
width="40%">
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Wendl-Dietrich-Str.
16, D-80634 München<br>
Tel: +49-89-18703223<br>
Fax: +49-89-18703224</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:20.0%;padding:.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt" valign="top"
width="20%">
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">E-Mail:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tl@aec3.de">tl@aec3.de</a><br>
Internet: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.aec3.de">www.aec3.de</a><br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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align="center">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr align="center" size="2"
width="100%">
</span></div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>wg11 mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wg11@steptools.com">wg11@steptools.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11">http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
wg11 mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wg11@steptools.com">wg11@steptools.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11">http://lists.steptools.com/mailman/listinfo/wg11</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-autospace:ideograph-other"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:ideograph-numeric
ideograph-other"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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