Announcement of Potential New Project : EXPRESS and Binary Data Representation

[Ed Barkmeyer]

Pardon me while I laugh!

In 1991, SC4 couldn't use ASN.1, a 1980 CCITT standard (and a 1984 ISO 
standard) for specifying message structures and binary exchange formats, 
because humans couldn't read ASN.1 binary files without software tools. 
  And of course, that logic applied to all kinds of users of electronic 
data interchange standards, so ASN.1, though widely implemented, was not 
successful.

In 1998, W3C developed XML -- a new standard for exchanging all kinds of 
messages and data, using text characters that people could read, with a 
weak structuring language (DTDs) based on the 1979 SGML standard.  And 
XML is reputed to be widely successful, although 5 years after adoption 
"production" exchange of XML messages/files is a rara avis. Then in 
2000-2002, W3C developed a language that had all the basic features of 
ASN.1 -- data types, local and global names, <all>, <sequence> and 
<choice> structures, an object-identifier data type (URI) -- XML schema. 
  And now that they have a structuring language equivalent to ASN.1, it 
is time for W3C to invent a new binary exchange notation, equivalent to 
the 1984 "ASN.1 basic encoding rules", which people won't be able to 
read, and whose only relationship to XML is that W3C is developing it. 
Oh, wow.

In our time of 200 GB desktops and 100 MB operating systems, I'm trying 
to understand the motivation for "compact" binary representation of 
anything.  Wireless downloads?

But in any case, all we SC4 have to do is stop making EXPRESS schemas 
(because they are not "mainstream"), convert our models to XML schema 
(which is mainstream but nearly unreadable by humans), and let W3C 
develop our binary exchange protocol, right?  Or perhaps we SC4 should 
now expend our resources developing a competing binary representation, 
so as to keep SC4-only toolsmiths in business.  Or maybe we just need to 
map EXPRESS to one of the half-dozen standard binary protocols that 
already exist -- HDF, ASN.1 BER/PER/VER, DDIF or whatever the telemetry 
folks are using these days.

Unfortunately, like the XML (schema) problem, and the C++/Java problem, 
EXPRESS, especially as used by SC4, doesn't quite capture what you need 
to make effective use of these other data architectures.  You need to 
mark up the EXPRESS model for such conversions.  But do we really want 
yet another god-awful configuration file (like Part 28)?  Shouldn't we 
just bite the bullet and standardize the XYZ representation, using the 
XYZ modeling language, in an Annex to the AP (or Module)?

SC4 has got to get out of the IT standards business -- we don't know 
anything others don't know and don't have better resources to develop, 
or re-develop, as in W3C.  All future WG11 NWIs should standardize 
migration paths to mainstream information technology standards, and over 
time, EXPRESS should take its rightful place in the dustbin of history.

-Ed

-- 
Edward J. Barkmeyer                        Email: edbark at nist.gov
National Institute of Standards & Technology
Manufacturing Systems Integration Division
100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8264                Tel: +1 301-975-3528
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8264                FAX: +1 301-975-4694

"The opinions expressed above do not reflect consensus of NIST,
  and have not been reviewed by any Government authority."

David Price wrote:

> FYI, I saw this in the W3C news.
> 
> XML-Binary Packaging and SOAP Transmission Optimization Working Drafts 
> Published
> 
>    The XML Protocol Working Group has released the First Public Working
>    Draft of "XML-binary Optimized Packaging" (XOP). XOP allows efficient
>    serializing of certain types of XQuery and XPath 2.0 element content.
>    Based on XOP, the group also published an updated Working Draft of
>    the "SOAP Message Transmission Optimization Mechanism" for improving
>    SOAP performance. Visit the Web services home page.
> 
>    http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xop10-20040209/
> 
>    http://www.w3...org/TR/2004/WD-soap12-mtom-20040209/ 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-soap12-mtom-20040209/>
> 
>    http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wg11 at steptools.com [mailto:owner-wg11 at steptools.com] On 
> Behalf Of David Price
> Sent: 07 February 2004 13:13
> To: Wg11 Exploder; Step-Imp; Xmlsc4
> Subject: Announcement of Potential New Project : EXPRESS and Binary Data 
> Representation
> 
>  
> 
> Meeting Name: EXPRESS and Binary Data Representation
> 
> Start Date: 2004-03-02 Tuesday
> 
> Time(s): 1:00pm - 3:00pm 3:30pm - 5:00pm
> 
>  
> 
> Agenda
> 
>  
> 
> 1) Discuss initiation of PWI or NWI
> 
> 2) Initiation of Requirements Document
> 
> 3) Initiation of Related Activities/Standards/Tools Document
> 
> 4) Plan next actions
> 
>  
> 
> The idea is to standardize or use an existing binary representation of 
> data for EXPRESS users whose applications require large volumes of data 
> such as the analysis APs. An initial meeting was held at the Poitiers ISO.
> 
>  
> 
> Note that there are already binary representations of data and that W3C 
> is having a related discussion with respect to a binary representation 
> for XML documents. All these activities are relevant. The expectation is 
> that a PWI or NWI will result but that it may not be necessary to invent 
> a representation ourselves. We may simply standardize the use of 
> something that already exists or is under development.
> 
>  
> 
> Please feel free to contact me if you have questions or comments,
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David
> 
> 
> Phone +44 207 704 0499
> Mobile +44 7788 561308
> 8 Highbury Place, Flat 5
> London, UK
> N5 1QZ
>